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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
i recently loaded some 175g matchkings with vht540 at 38g, 39g, and 40g, my question is what type of powders and how much to get the 175g to 2,700fps or more?

my loads worked great at 300 yards and closer but at 600 i need more fps

any load formulas would be great.

btw i am using a remington 700 sps varmint with a b&c medalist stock, rifle has a 26 inch barrel and a 1/12 twist rate.

any help would be great.
 

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I posted a FPS chart in the .308 load info (thats why I made that thread for info like this ;) ) section check it out. For me though I chrono'd my 44.4 IMR 4064 loads at 2613 ( 20 inch barrel) which should keep me above 1200 FPS even out to 1050 yards.
 

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You can do it. Maybe switch to a faster burning powder??
 

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Sierra's data don't show any velocities close to 2700...2500-2600 with max loads.
I guess you could lube the barrel and get a running start toward the chrono?
Not sayin it can't happen though, I just think it's a tall order.
 

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cobretr said:
Sierra's data don't show any velocities close to 2700...2500-2600 with max loads.
I guess you could lube the barrel and get a running start toward the chrono?
Not sayin it can't happen though, I just think it's a tall order.

hahahahaha lol

Quick said:
You can do it. Maybe switch to a faster burning powder??
If you use faster burning powder is not always a solution because it can cause a bigger pressure issue. You will have to jump on a chrono and a lot of different powders ;)
 

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I loaded some neck sized federal GMM brass with a fed 210 primer, 44gr of varget and 175SMKs. My Crony was 9 ft from the muzzle in 55deg temp last week and a 10 shot string had a average velocity of 2674fps.

I want 2700 average, so when I got home from work tonight my Laupa brass was sitting at the door and I loaded 20 rounds of it same charge same primer same bullet only change was the brass, I hope to see 2700 out of it, if not I will bump my charge up a .1 /.2 gr to see if i can get the velocity w/o loosing the accuracy i have with the 44gr charge.
 

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I loaded some of my Lapua brass @ 44.5 with IMR 4064 and its way to hot for Lapua Brass at 2.800 COAL. unless your chamber is a little larger I guess.
 

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cobretr said:
2700+ is a tall order for 175's!
Actually it's not.

The original M118LR spec'd at 2700 fps.

LC brass
RL15

The load was published on Alliant's web site - where I got the load from.

When I loaded it, I attained 2699 fps out of my PGWDTI Coyote.

This is the same load that started breaking M14's during Iraq 1, and was subsequently down loaded, but I found the replacement load not to be as accurate as the original.
 

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Here is what can be done with a 24 inch barrel.

Code:
Cartridge          : .308 Win.
Bullet             : .308, 175, Sierra HPBT MatchK 2275
Useable Case Capaci: 47.781 grain H2O = 3.102 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch = 71.12 mm
Barrel Length      : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder             : IMR 4064 ?, Temperature: 55 °F

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-20.0   85    35.20   2175    1839   31898   5869     91.8    1.538
-18.0   87    36.08   2226    1925   33964   6037     92.9    1.499
-16.0   89    36.96   2277    2014   36159   6200     93.8    1.461
-14.0   91    37.84   2327    2104   38495   6357     94.7    1.420
-12.0   93    38.72   2377    2196   40982   6507     95.5    1.380
-10.0   95    39.60   2428    2290   43630   6650     96.3    1.341
-08.0   97    40.48   2478    2385   46450   6786     97.0    1.304
-06.0   99    41.36   2528    2482   49456   6913     97.6    1.268
-04.0  102    42.24   2577    2581   52661   7032     98.2    1.234  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0  104    43.12   2627    2681   56082   7142     98.6    1.200  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0  106    44.00   2676    2783   59735   7242     99.0    1.168  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0  108    44.88   2725    2886   63640   7332     99.4    1.137  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  110    45.76   2774    2990   67820   7411     99.6    1.107  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0  112    46.64   2823    3096   72298   7480     99.8    1.078  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0  114    47.52   2871    3203   77101   7538    100.0    1.050  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0  116    48.40   2919    3311   82262   7584    100.0    1.023  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    106    44.00   2778    2999   70461   7000    100.0    1.094  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    106    44.00   2533    2494   49318   7160     94.4    1.266


And here is what can be done with a 26" barrel

Code:
Cartridge          : .308 Win.
Bullet             : .308, 175, Sierra HPBT MatchK 2275
Useable Case Capaci: 47.781 grain H2O = 3.102 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch = 71.12 mm
Barrel Length      : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder             : IMR 4064 ?, Temperature: 55 °F

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-20.0   85    35.20   2215    1907   31898   5381     92.6    1.614
-18.0   87    36.08   2266    1995   33964   5530     93.6    1.573
-16.0   89    36.96   2317    2086   36159   5674     94.5    1.533
-14.0   91    37.84   2368    2178   38495   5812     95.3    1.491
-12.0   93    38.72   2418    2272   40982   5943     96.1    1.449
-10.0   95    39.60   2468    2367   43630   6068     96.8    1.409
-08.0   97    40.48   2518    2464   46450   6186     97.5    1.371
-06.0   99    41.36   2568    2563   49456   6295     98.0    1.333
-04.0  102    42.24   2618    2663   52661   6397     98.5    1.298  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0  104    43.12   2667    2764   56082   6490     98.9    1.263  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0  106    44.00   2716    2867   59735   6575     99.3    1.230  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0  108    44.88   2765    2971   63640   6650     99.6    1.198  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  110    45.76   2814    3077   67820   6715     99.8    1.167  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0  112    46.64   2862    3183   72298   6771     99.9    1.137  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0  114    47.52   2910    3291   77101   6816    100.0    1.108  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0  116    48.40   2958    3399   82262   6851    100.0    1.080  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    106    44.00   2816    3081   70461   6327    100.0    1.154  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    106    44.00   2575    2577   49318   6540     95.0    1.331
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
this is the 2 loads i tryed this weekend ;


#1
175g smk (metplat tooled)
new winchester brass
federal 210m primer
38.5g rl-15 powder
coal--2.810

#2
175g smk (metplat tooled)
new winchester brass
federal 210m primer
42.0g varget powder
coal--2.810
with this load the primers were flat after firing the rounds

i did 1 group at 100 yards with each and a group at 300 yards with each

load #1 did
.344"@100 yards
[email protected] yards

load #2 did
[email protected] yards
[email protected] yards

load #1 def did good for me but 300 yards is a fairly close range and moving out to 600 and beyond even though i have no acess to a chrono yet i know its not going to be moving very fast and will be more effected by wind and require more adjustment elevation wise. not that it wont work but i would love to get the 175 moving a bit faster but it seems the more powder used and the faster it flys the less accurate it gets? i know the 175 smk is def capable and i know from my military exp using the 175 smk that at around 2650 it had outstanding accuracy out to 1000 yards and beyond but i just cant seem to come up with a fomula close to mil spec without losing a good amount of accuracy???
 

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whats your barrel length ? and the temp at which your shooting in ? also for your primer to flatten out at 42.0 gr of Varget seems odd. Post some pics......... the last box that I shot of factory FGM 175 SMK's had flat primers.

The loads I ran this weekend I was pushing them with 44.7 Varget in Win brass and 44.2 and 44.7 of IMR 4064 which is hotter burning then R-15 and Varget.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
barrel is 26 inches temp was about 20*f .

shooting with a remington 700 sps varmint with a b&c medalist a2 stock and a nikon 5-20x scope off of a front and rear bag.

i will get pics of the cases up in about and hour or so.
 

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here is a burn rate chart http://www.hodgdon.com/burn-rate.html


I still find that there is something somewhere not right to get flat primers at only 42.0 grains of Varget. QL is showing that the PSI is ruffly 44909 PSI + or -.


here is what the load you load shows in QL and from my own findings this program is pretty close.


Code:
Cartridge          : .308 Win.
Bullet             : .308, 175, Sierra HPBT MatchK 2275
Useable Case Capaci: 48.669 grain H2O = 3.160 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.810 inch = 71.37 mm
Barrel Length      : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder             : Hodgdon VARGET ?, Temperature: 20 °F

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-20.0   77    33.60   2039    1616   25143   4929     86.7    1.767
-18.0   79    34.44   2086    1691   26648   5091     87.8    1.725
-16.0   81    35.28   2133    1768   28240   5250     88.9    1.684
-14.0   83    36.12   2180    1848   29928   5406     90.0    1.645
-12.0   85    36.96   2228    1928   31712   5559     91.0    1.606
-10.0   87    37.80   2275    2011   33604   5709     92.0    1.569
-08.0   89    38.64   2322    2095   35607   5854     92.9    1.532
-06.0   91    39.48   2369    2181   37732   5995     93.8    1.496
-04.0   93    40.32   2416    2269   39983   6132     94.6    1.456
-02.0   95    41.16   2463    2358   42360   6263     95.3    1.419
+00.0   97    42.00   2510    2449   44909   6389     96.0    1.383
+02.0   99    42.84   2557    2541   47597   6508     96.7    1.348
+04.0  101    43.68   2604    2635   50432   6622     97.3    1.315
+06.0  103    44.52   2651    2731   53436   6729     97.8    1.282  ! Near Maximum !
+08.0  105    45.36   2697    2827   56630   6829     98.3    1.251  ! Near Maximum !
+10.0  106    46.20   2744    2926   60029   6922     98.7    1.220  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba     97    42.00   2628    2684   52910   6409     99.5    1.292  ! Near Maximum !
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba     97    42.00   2360    2164   37226   6096     89.2    1.501
 

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here is my primers and its a little hard to see cause its a phone pic but the FGM primers are more flat than the reloads.

 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
heres some pics of the primers.

as you can see in the first pic its pretty flat with 42 grains of varget:



i also loaded some 168g amax at 46g of varget going off of the front of the powder container but theres no way im going to put them thru my rifle after these 175's had flat primers at only 42g of varget?

anyhow here are two cases side by side , the one with the flat primer is the 42g of varget and the other is 39g of varget both in the same case and both with 175g smk



im just having such a damn hard time getting a 175g smk load close to what i used in the military???? im getting a little peeved.
 

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almost would seem that if your scale weighs the powder right on the dot +- .2 of a .1 of a grain you might have a chamber issue. You should get a 20-25 dollar box of FGM 168 SMK's and see what happens. Also that RP brass is thicker than say Winchester so that might be another thing. There is no way though that this should be happening with 175 SMK's.

I dont remember but what rifle you pushing these through ?


1-Scale working right.
2-COAL of cartridge might be to close to the lands. (This is in relation to Headspace)
3-Case shoulder is set to far back maybe. (check new cases to make sure)
4-Check Headspace of chamber.
5- Maybe just maybe the cases have a really low amount of capacity space and causing to much pressure. You can check this with some water. Take a case and throw it on the scale and get the actual case weight then pour water all the way to the top and get this reading and minus the original case reading and this should give you the capacity amount. then compare it to my finding under case capacity thread.

has to be one of the above because you surly have pressure issues here. One thing I forgot to ask you having any issues while opening the bolt after firing ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
rifle is a 700 sps varmint26 inch barrel; 1 in 12 twist.

and no i have not had any problems opening the bolt and ejecting rounds.

i will run down your list and do some checking and get back with you
 
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