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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok... I'm new to the site so I hope I posted in the right spot. I'm a member of a local SC shooter forum but not to many guys have 700's to compare notes with. I posted pics of my gun in the photo section under topic "my baby".

Ok now to my question or your thoughts. I just got my gun back from a local custom rifle maker and was curious if I should be concerned with the results. I spent $880 on everything I had done and was thinking myself that the MOA would be better or am I just expecting to much.

The gun was a 6mm remington but was a 2 moa gun at 100 yards so I had a Lilja 23" heavy fluted barrel put on in .308 Win. I also had the action accurized/ blue printed and the barrel threaded for my supressor.

The range report from the gunsmith last week was.....
Factory winchester ballistic sivertips 150gr produced 2.58" at 250 yards. If i'm not mistaken thats about 1 moa gun.
Then he switched to handloads....45.2 gr Varget and 168 hornady amax and got a 5/8" at 100 yards.

Do you guys think I can get better or should I be concerned with the work completed?

I am a handloader myself and norm load 168gr sierra MK HPBT with either IMR 4064 or H4895 with match brass and federal gold medal primers.

I havent worked up any loads for this gun yet or shot it myself but am open to different powders/ bullets if you think I can get better MOA.

If I am way off key let me know.
 

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Here is what I use for my sps tactical in .308

175 smk
44.5 varget powder or
44.7 it likes both just the 44.7 gives me more fps
And primers I use BR-2 varget seems to like the br's better then the fed's 210m
My coal is 2.800 I can go much over that because of my mag so I stick with 2.800

I will look in my notes to see what 4064 with Feds 210m does. The IMR seems to like the Feds better.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Robo said:
HHB Guns said:
Ok I have to ask.....What is BR-2's?
CCI's BR2 primers, made for the Benchrest crowd. Some like them, some can't get them to shoot well...
I see. Havent tried them. I have 2000 federal gold medal primers so that is one variable I prob wont change.
 

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HHB Guns said:
Robo said:
HHB Guns said:
Ok I have to ask.....What is BR-2's?
CCI's BR2 primers, made for the Benchrest crowd. Some like them, some can't get them to shoot well...
I see. Havent tried them. I have 2000 federal gold medal primers so that is one variable I prob wont change.
The primers you have will work well. My reloads produce 1/4" groups @ 100yds out of my SPS Tactical that has a 20" barrel. Here is the load recipe I use.....
168 SMK, 43g RL-15, CCI#200 primer, Winchester case with a coal of 2.800"
I have not used the 175 SMK because I dont shoot past 300yds, but I will get a box soon and give them a try and compare to what I am loading now.
 

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I think you should be able to do a little better than 5/8 at one hundred yards but it may take some work. You'll need a good parallax free scope, an anti cant level or some other way to insure your rifle is plumb for each shot. A good rest, both front and back. and perfect ammo. Then you'll need to be able to properly use that equipment plus judge the wind.

You didn't say anything about the stock. Did the Smith bed it or do anything to it? Proper bedding will have a major effect on the way a rifle shoots.

Lilja barrels are very good, I have two of them, but there is more to shooting small groups than the barrel.
 

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For me the Varget powder seems to make the loads kick less. As for the IMR 4046 with Fed 210m they seem to kick more.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
jerrschmitt said:
I think you should be able to do a little better than 5/8 at one hundred yards but it may take some work. You'll need a good parallax free scope, an anti cant level or some other way to insure your rifle is plumb for each shot. A good rest, both front and back. and perfect ammo. Then you'll need to be able to properly use that equipment plus judge the wind.
You didn't say anything about the stock. Did the Smith bed it or do anything to it? Proper bedding will have a major effect on the way a rifle shoots.
Lilja barrels are very good, I have two of them, but there is more to shooting small groups than the barrel.

Don't know what you speak of about parallax free scope. I'm using a Leupold VX II 2.5-12x50. I want to buy a tactical scope but have not heard any good stories about light quality at dusk dark hunting with a tactical scope so I am using a hunting scope. I just wish I could get the best of both worlds "hunting/tactical" for around $400. If anybody knows/uses a tactical scope for dusk dark hunting and it's clear let me know.

Anti-cant level???

As far as the bedding.....I am picking it up from the gunsmith in the morning. It is a HS precision aluminum bedded stock. I had the gunsmith glass bed over it this week.

Now if I can just find time to go to the range and see what this baby does.
 

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HHB Guns said:
[
Don't know what you speak of about parallax free scope. I'm using a Leupold VX II 2.5-12x50. I want to buy a tactical scope but have not heard any good stories about light quality at dusk dark hunting with a tactical scope so I am using a hunting scope. I just wish I could get the best of both worlds "hunting/tactical" for around $400. If anybody knows/uses a tactical scope for dusk dark hunting and it's clear let me know.

Anti-cant level???

As far as the bedding.....I am picking it up from the gunsmith in the morning. It is a HS precision aluminum bedded stock. I had the gunsmith glass bed over it this week.

Now if I can just find time to go to the range and see what this baby does.
All scopes have parallax at some range and higher power scopes usually have a means to adjust for it. The Vari X II does not. The way you check is to set your rifle in a stable shooting position and look thru the scope. Move your head from side to side and up and down. The cross hairs should not move in relation to the target. If they do, you have parallax at that range. Most scopes like yours are adjusted at the factory to be parallax free at some range around 100 - 200 yards. If you really want to see parallax, sight in on a target around 50 yards and it will really show up Scopes that have adjustments for parallax are seldom accurate in the numbers scribed on the scope body. My VX III Leupolds are off by as much as 50 yards.

Anti cant levels are used more at longer ranges but it's still important to insure that your rifle is level. Bench rest shooters use a stock with a wide flat bottom to keep things square. Midway sells anti cant levels or you can make your own.

Sounds like your bedding should be good to go.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Ok....Was going to post this in the Range reports but since this thread was already started about my gun I just figured I would post it here.

I made it out to the range today. Wonderful 75 degrees with a light breeze. As I said before. The gunsmith ran about 20 rounds throught the new barrel so I finished the break-in today cleaning every three rounds with Hoppes #9 and sweets 7.62 copper solvent.

I had a box of federal 168 SMK's that I shot at 100yards and then I shot some Hornady 178 BTHP Match and then four rounds of 7.62 Military match Lake city M852's at 100 and 200 yards. The 852's shot better than the Hornadys.

Everything was shot off of a Caldwell lead sled.

Needless to say I am very disappointed in my Gun as I now have about $1700 invested and the best group of the day was 1.190" at 100 yards. My buddy was sitting right next to me with a stock rem 700 from Dicks with $460 invested he was shooting 7/8" groups with fricking core-locks.

I hope I can do better with handloads or this thing is going on Gunbroker soon.

Pic#1 was Fed 168 at 100 yds.


Pic #2 was Fed 168 at 100 yds


Pic #3 was Hornady 178 Match at 100 yds.


Pic #4 was 7.62 Military Match M852's at 200 yds


Pic #5 was Hornady 178 Match at 200 yds


So whats your thoughts???
 

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Have you tried firing from a fouled barrel? my groups open up like that for the first 10-12 rounds after I clean it real good. after those 10 or so rounds I run a bore snake and its right back to 1/4MOA. Those groups are absolutley horrible, especially from a sled...Have you checked stock,base,rings etc. etc.. something is definetly not right. If it were me... I would take it right back to your smithy and let him deal with it. I cant believe he would take your $$$ and hand you such a poor shooting rifle.
 

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This is frustrating to say the least.

I would try some of these bullets. I use them to break in the barrels on both of my rifles so far and it smooths out all the imperfections and reduces fouling. My cold bore shots are the exact same as shot number 25.

http://www.cabelas.com/fryprod-0/pr...nish-Bore-Conditioning-Ammo--706034.uts.shtml

The match ammo you were shooting should give better results than that.

Is the stock contacting the barrel anywhere that you might not be aware of?

Or take it back to your smith as mentioned above and see what the deal is... maybe have him shoot it to. Is there another gunsmith you could take it to to just double check his work? It's possible he could have measured wrong or made a mistake I guess.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I spoke to the smith tonight and he said my satisfaction is his goal. He told me to try some different handloads to see if I could hone in on a good shooting one and if I can't he told me he would build me a rifle from scratch to make me happy if need be. Atleast he is standing behind his work. We shall see.
 

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Awesome that he is standing by his word/work!!! That being said, with the quality ammo that you have tried with poor results just shows there is a problem with the rifle. If it shoots poorly with quality match ammo then your just wasting your time reloading. That M852 & federal as well as those hrndy 178's should have produced sub-moa groups even from a out of the box 700.
 

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Here is what I was able to pull of at 200 yards with federal 175 SMK factory rounds. I didn't have time to reload last night and this CRAZY PRICED ammo ran me 40.04 for 20 rounds :mad:
I'm not to fond of the federal ammo but had to try the 200 yard today.

I ran 1 shot way low for the very first shot then shot a group of 4 shots.
The bigger group is the first try, and I had to do some adjustments so thats why is was spread out so much.
Then I shot the last five rounds I had at the lower sticker which measured out at .762 :D

 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I gave my rifle to a good customer who has been reloading for 40+ years. He has forgotten more than I know so I figured I would let him test all the powders before I took it back to the gunsmith. He tried some different loads including H4895, IMR 4064, Varget, Reloader 15, and Accurate 2520......He told me that he had good results with all powders about 1/2-3/4" groups except the reloader 15. He said he couldnt get that one to stay on the paper. Accurate 2520 won the challange today with a five shot group covering with a dime. He said if it came down to a close second it would be H4895. He said he doesnt think there is anything wrong with my rifle. Just needed some good handloads.

Pic was 5 shots at 100 yards with accurate 2520 43-Grains with Federal GM Primers and COAL 2.800"
 
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