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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm considering buying the Vortex Viper in either the 4x16 or 6x24x50 pst models. Each has an option for first and second focal plane. As I understand it, ffp allows at any magnification setting the reticles moa marks remain accurate. With sfp scopes, only the highest mag level makes these "marks" on the reticle are accurate. My thinking is this...if I decide to get the 4x16 I would get the sfp because I could live at the 16 power setting for most range shooting. However, if I wanted the 6x24 power I would get the ffp so that I coudl dial down the power setting without making the reticle off.
 

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The 16x on a SFP scope would be the zoom that is needed Yo be able to range a target. Up to like 300 I wouldn't even really use it. Now a FFP you can range at any zoom level.

Unless you really use the MOA or MILLs to range and SFP will do.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Ok thanks! You've been a huge help on this forum for me! So the only help is in ranging? who wants the ffp then? And why do they justify the extra cost?
 

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Well when you get really good at long range shooting you can estimate range with a FFP at any zoom. The Mill and MOA reticles are not only hold overs for shooting long range but also a distance estimator that comes in handy when you dont have a rangefinder at hand.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Ok, so to use the moa marks for hold over at any range, I would need the ffp? So in a sfp, I would have basically just a cross hair reticle but at highest mag level I can actually use those marks accurately? If I used this scope for hunting at lowest mag level and would want to utilize hold over for quick shots instead of dialing in adjustments, the ffp is what I would want?
 

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To use the Mill or MOA for range estimation at any zoom you would need a FFP scope. SFP can still estimate range but on 16X (example. Vortex PST. Some SFP Scope will do this at 10x). Now for hold over the FFP is any magnification and the SPF is usually 16X (based on the Vortex PST).
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Ok cool thanks for the help! You seem to know your stuff....any ideas or opinions on the viper vortex pst scopes?
 

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Between the two the FFP is better for more than just range estimating. You have to consider the reason you can range estimate at any magnification level because the reticle scales with the magnification. That also gives you the advantage of your reticle sub tensions always representing their true value, it comes in handy for holding wind or holding over for shots at different ranges. The down side is sometimes depending in the reticle the cross hairs can completely cover the target at long range when set to max zoom. With SFP you have to remember the sub tensions values change as you change magnification but the reticle size remains the same. Depending on what kind of shooting your doing and how heavily you use the reticle will dictate which is the better option for you. FFP's usually cost more. I use s SFP NF and want to upgrade to FFP down the road. I shoot precision rifle matches and regularly practice ranges estimating so the FFP option has more pro's than con's for my usage.

P.S. At lower magnification it can be hard to utilize the reticle for anyting other than a aiming point with FFP because it scales down and becomes hard to make out the sub tensions.
 

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I know a few guys that have the SFP subtension values written down in their shooting logs its what I do.

PS JF I tried not to use the subtension words to much incase the op didn't understand things :p Also do you do a lot of range estimation at matches or are they pretty much right on with distance ?
 

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If your retical is on the second focal plane it will stay the same size but the sub tensions values change. They usually mark the correct magnification for ranging. With mine I can range @ 15x, at half way through the mag. range the sub tensions double. Nightforce has a program that breaks it down for you but constantly referring to your data book burns up time. SFP is perfectly fine if you know how to use them. FFP is faster and your usually under time constraints in a match. I don't worry about it shooting in the desert with friends unless were practicing for a match.

Win XP, it depends on the match. Sometimes they have a specific timed range estimation stage. No LRF's. Most of the time the ranges are known. Like I said the whole FFP/SFP depends on what you prefer. SFP is fine and you save some money.

I use 3.5x15x and live @ 15x. FFP is handy when shooting movers too. I like dialing down for 100 yard movers and running at 15x for movers @ 500 meters. When I dial down for 100 yard movers I go half way on the magnification range and have to remember the sub tensions double.
 

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jasonbourne said:
Hmm, what if the reticle is etched on the glass on the sfp? (for ranging)

Still doesn't matter. (wishful thinking it would be nice though :p )

JF I got used to using mine on 10x for range finding and also using the mils for the actual drops.


And as for cash yes this feature will either create an empty pocket :D or a money saver if not needed.
 

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"P.S. At lower magnification it can be hard to utilize the reticle for anyting other than a aiming point with FFP because it scales down and becomes hard to make out the sub tensions."

My falcon is near worthless at 4 power due to this. I'm not the expert on all this, but with the FFP you can learn to range at any mag power, but your holdover for moving targets may differ depending on what magnification you're at. I've only learned holdover points for walking/running targets at 10 power. Not all SFP scopes are set up for mil ranging at full power. Some 14 power and higher scopes are set to actually range at 10 power. Others are set to range at full power.
And at least for my Falcon FFP, at full power the reticle is a little thick in my opinion. Not sure if all FFP scopes are like that. 10 power seems about perfect for a thin mil-dot reticle with my scope.
 

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If you are shooting known distance range shooting, grab SFP, if its unknown distance and movers, estainnly Tactical comps, Id go FFP. I know at what mags my retcile doubles atc but I mainly use max power soo Im fine with my SFP.
 

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But.. All things considered

FFP > SPF

I really began to see the light once I started traveling to different matches here in the south west. The SFP Nightforce will be demoted to my .22 trainer once Fed Ex arrives with a package from Brea, CA
 
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