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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I wanted to make you guys aware. I have attended Storm Mountain Training Centers long range rifle 1, and just signed up for LRR2 in May. I just found out that Rod Ryan is going to hold a sniper competition in Oct to raise money for the Wounded Warrior Project. There are 3 catagories, Civilian, Military and LE. Check out there web site if interesed. I am signing up with my buddy from Rods LRR courses. Great facilities and staff. Just and FYI for anyone interested.
 

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Thanks for the heads up. I think I will post a link on the home page about this. I've heard a lot about the Wounded Warrior Project.... lot of good stuff!

EDIT: I looked at their website, but I didn't see any info on that could you post a link to where the information is?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Rod just emailed me a pdf of the competition. Can I attach a pdf? I can email it to you as well. I will see if I can attach the pdf. It is a great cause! I must be a moron, I cant figure out how to attach an image.
 

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sch2046 said:
Rod just emailed me a pdf of the competition. Can I attach a pdf? I can email it to you as well. I will see if I can attach the pdf. It is a great cause! I must be a moron, I cant figure out how to attach an image.
If you want, just email the pdf or image or whatever you got (LOL) to: [email protected]

Thanks!

(I should see if there is an extension add-on for this forum)
 

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+1 I may be up for the drive to CO for the LE round. Would love to see the fees, times, and all that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Storm Mountain Training Center is in WV. Rod does a lot of training with the military and LE and contractors. Everything from handgun to tactical carbine to personal protection and sniper training (he is a sniper). I emailed the info that was on a pdf to the admin. I couldnt figure out how to attach it. I can email it to you if you would like but you would have to PM me your email. Oct 14-16. 250 per person or 500 per team. All proceeds go to the Wounded Warrior Project. I just figured out I can copy and paste from his PDF. Here is the info. I hope it all came out.

From: Storm Mountain Training Center
To: Competitors
Subject: Sniper / Observer Competition 14-16 October 2011.
SMTC is excited and proud to be able to sponsor an event
that is so worthwhile and life changing for our wounded
service members returning from warzone deployments.
All proceeds from this event will be donated directly to the
Wounded Warrior Project to enhance their continued
assistance and support of our service members.
WWP is a nonprofit, nonpartisan organization headquartered
in Jacksonville, FL with additional program offices located in
New York City and Washington D.C. WWP was founded in
Roanoke, Virginia by a group of veterans and friends who
took action to help the injured service men and women of
this generation.
The Wounded Warrior Mission
To honor and empower wounded warriors.
Wounded Warrior Vision
To foster the most successful, well-adjusted generation of wounded warriors in this
nation's history.
Wounded Warrior Core Values
-Fun
-Integrity
-Loyalty
-Innovation
-Service
Wounded Warrior Purpose
1. To raise awareness and enlist the public’s aid for the needs of injured service
members.
2. To help injured service members aid and assist each other.
3. To provide unique, direct programs and services to meet the needs of injured
service members.
In an effort to maximize our combined donations, please support this event. Even if you
cannot compete in the event, please tell everyone you know about this and raise
3
donations if at all possible. Did deep, our service members dig deep for our freedoms
each and every day.
Competition Info
1. All registration and entry fee’s must be paid no later than close of business 1700 (5:00
p.m.) on 1 July, 2011. Payment must be in certified check or money order. Make
payable to Storm Mountain Training Center, Inc. , Rt. 1, Box 60, Elk Garden WV,
26717. Entry fees are $250.00 each, $500. per team.
2. Start time. Please notice that the start time is 0800 (8:00 am) on 14 October 2011.
3. Gear requirements. Competitors are required to provide all weapons, ammunition and
equipment needed for the competition. The below list is given as a suggested
minimum:
a) Rifle (Non-Magnum).
b) Sniper Rifle Ammunition: 150 Live and 5 Blanks.
c) Carbine (7.62mm Maximum).
d) Carbine Ammunition: 100 Live.
e) Handgun (.45 ACP Maximum)
f) Handgun Ammunition: 100 Live.
g) Support Kit to include holster, mag pouches for handgun and carbine.
h) Personal Gear. To be packed in rucksack.
1) Firing support
2) Compass
3) Hearing protection
4) Small pruning shears
5) Ghillie suit suggested
6) At least 2 quarts of water in canteens/camelbacks etc.
7) First aid kit
8) Bee sting/allergy kit
9) Rain gear (Poncho or rainsuit)
10) Food (We will not break for chow)
i) Miscellaneous. Calculator, Pen/Pencils, clipboard.
4. Nature of competition. The events contained in the competition are based on
military/Law Enforcement training evaluations used by the USMC, US Army and FBI
sniper schools. Military standards will be followed. The competition, while demanding
in nature, will be achievable for the average competitor who is in good physical
condition, has a basic knowledge of sniper skills and a suitable weapon system.
Matches for the competition will be:
a) Match 1. Kims’ game.
b) Match 2. Stalk exercise.
c) Match 3. Target Detection exercise.
4
d) Match 4. Range Estimation exercise.
e) Match 5. Cold Bore Shoot (distance will be advised day of event, 200-600 yards).
f) Match 6. C/Sniper Urban Shoot.
g) Match 7. Mil/Reticle Holds Shoot.
h) Match 8. Sniper Unknown Distance Field Fire Shoot w/ Mover.
i) Match 9. Handgun Hide Clearance Shoot.
j) Match 10. Handgun/Carbine Stress Shoot.
k) Match 11. Target ID Shoot.
5. Categories. Competitors must enter as a 2-man team. Competitors may only enter in
one category (Civilian, Military, Law Enforcement). Trophies will be awarded to the
high overall 2-man team and then 1st, 2nd and 3rd place 2-man teams in each category
based on an overall aggregate of the 11 matches. No individual match awards will be
given. Donated prizes will be placed on the prize table and each winning team starting
with the first place teams in each category will be allowed one trip to the table. If
numbers of prizes outnumber the total of the first three places in each of the three
categories (Mil, LE, Civ.) the next place teams in each categories will draw from the
prize table until all prized are given out.
6. No Laser range finders or weapons with a magnum caliber will be allowed.
7. Our plan is to have a pig roast dinner on the evening of October 15th and an old
fashioned Blue Grass concert right after.
8. An event T-shirt will be provided to each competitor, with additional t-shirts on sale
during the event.
8. Phone (304) 446-5526.
Rod Ryan
VP, Operations
A-1
Sniper/Observer Competition
14-16 October 2011
Course of Fire Description
Section 1. General Rules.
1. No whining.
2. Competitors must compete in all matches.
Section 2. Match descriptions.
1) Match #1. Kim’s game. (Scored as individuals.)
a) The Kim’s’ game is used to evaluate a snipers ability to observe, remember and
accurately describe events and objects he has seen. 10 items will be shown to the
competitors for a predetermined period of time. No talking or note taking will be
permitted. Competitors will be required to recall and list the objects at a later time.
The score-sheet will contain the following categories, which the competitor must
complete for each object. Below is an example of how a fired .308 cartridge case
might be described.
Size Shape Color Condition What item
appears to be
1/4” x 1.5” Cylindrical Brass Fired ATB .308
cartridge case
b) Scoring will be based on awarding 2 points for each of the 5 categories of an item
(size, shape, color, condition and appears to be) which are entered correctly.
Maximum score per item is 10 points and maximum score for the event will be 100
based on 10 items.
2) Match #2. Stalk exercise. (Scored as individuals.)
a) The stalk exercise is used to evaluate a snipers ability to move undetected to within
effective range of his weapon system and engage an enemy observer without being
compromised.
b) Competitors will be taken to the observer’s position and the stalk area will be
described to them. The left and right limits, 300 m line and final firing position
(FFP) line will be pointed out and questions will be answered regarding the stalk
lanes boundaries.
c) Competitors will then be taken to the assembly (start) point and gear will be
inspected to ensure the minimum amount of gear is being taken on the simulated
A-2
mission. Competitors will then be given a 10-minute warning. During these 10
minutes competitors are not under observation but may not leave the assembly
point. After 10 minutes has elapsed, the command “You are now under
observation” will be given. At this point the observers are on optics and
competitors may begin to move to their FFP’s.
d) Rules:
i) No running in the stalk lane.
ii) If the command “Freeze” is given ALL competitors will freeze in their tracks. No
movement will be allowed until staff has “unfrozen” the lane. Staff may allow
certain areas to continue to move until they identify whom the OP has detected.
iii) Competitors must stay within the stalk lane’s boundaries. Blatant or flagrant
violators of the boundaries will be considered cheating and ejected from the
competition.
iv) No blanks will be chambered until the competitor is in his firing position and he
has ensured that there are no other competitors or staff within 5 yards of his
muzzle. If another competitor or staff member is within 5 yards of his muzzle or
close to being in line with the competitors muzzle as he prepares to fire, he will
not fire until the individual in danger acknowledges the shooter and either
moves or protects himself from the blast.
e) Scoring.
i) Maximum points – 100 points.
3) Caught once prior to 200m line. Competitor will be allowed to continue the event but
can only receive a maximum score of 50 points.
4) Caught twice prior to the 200m line. If detected twice, the competitor will be pulled off
the lane and will receive zero points.
5) 0-points- Does not make it to the 200m line within the time limit or is detected twice
prior to reaching the 200m line.
6) 40 points- Passes the 200m line within the time limit.
7) 50 points- Passes the 200m line and takes the first shot.
8) 60 points- Is not detected or identified with the walker within 10 yards.
a) 50 points- If detected or identified with the walker within 10 yards.
9) 70 points- Is not detected or identified with the walker indicating the direction to the
student.
A-3
a) 60 points- Is detected or identified with the walker indicating the direction to the
student.
10) 80 points- competitor remains undetected after the walker touches head.
a) 70 points- If detected while walker touches the competitors head.
11) 90 points- competitor remains undetected after loading and firing his/her second shot.
a) 80 points- If detected.
12) 100 points- The competitor can ID the proper observer and his rifle scope has:
a) Proper elevation and windage settings.
b) Proper support (tripod, bipod, pack, sticks, camera tripod. Must be at least a
bipod)
i) 90 points- If one or the other of the above (a or b) is improper.
ii) 80 points- If both (a and b) are improper.
iii) 50 points- If the competitor cannot ID the proper observer.
3. Match #3. Target detection exercise. (Scored as individuals)
a) The target detection exercise is used to evaluate a snipers ability to locate and
report possible combat targets.
b) Competitors will be taken to a position and the target area will be described to
them. They will be given a copy of a photograph of the target area and an answer
sheet.
c) Competitors will then be told to take a position on the line with answer sheet and
optics. Each competitor will then have 30 minutes to locate and record the location
of the 10 items on the photograph and describe the item (as with the Kim’s game)
on the answer sheet. After 15 minutes has elapsed, the competitors will then be
told to pick up their gear and change ends of the observation line. The staff will
give commands to accomplish this in an orderly and fair manner.
d) Rules:
i) No talking to other competitors while on line.
ii) No optics more powerful than 25X may be used. Zoom capable optics with
magnification greater than 25X will be marked by the staff at 25X.
e) Scoring.
i) Maximum points – 100 points.
A-4
(1) 5 points - Each item correctly located on photo.
(2) 5 points – Each item correctly described on answer sheet.
4. Match #4. Range estimation exercise. (Scored as individuals)
a) The range estimation exercise is used to evaluate a snipers ability to determine
distances to combat type targets by the naked eye and range finding scales in
either binoculars or SWS scope. NO LASER RANGE FINDERS ALLOWED.
b) Competitors will be taken to a position and the target area will be described to
them. Ten targets will be pointed out to them and questions will be answered
regarding the location of targets. Each target will be clearly marked with either a
number or a letter. The staff member will read off the order in which the targets
will be listed on the competitors score sheet.
c) Competitors will then be told to take a position on the line with answer sheet.
Optics without range finding reticles may be used to identify targets. Each
competitor will then have 10 minutes to estimate and record the distance to the 10
targets with the naked eye. After 10 minutes has elapsed, the competitors will then
be told to acquire their mil scale equipped optics but may not look through them
until the command to begin has been given. Once the command to start has been
given the competitors will have 10 minutes to estimate and record the distance to
the 10 targets with the range finding scale equipped optics.
d) Rules:
i) No talking to other competitors while on line.
ii) No laser range finders or other electro-optical systems allowed.
iii) Staff personnel must initial all corrections to answers by eye.
e) Scoring.
i) Maximum points – 100 points.
(1) Eye – Answers must be within +/- 15 percent.
(2) Optics - +/- 05 percent.
5. Match #5. Cold Bore Shot. (Scored as individuals)
a) The cold bore shot is used to evaluate a snipers ability to apply the fundamentals of
marksmanship and obtain maximum accuracy from his sniper weapon system fired
in an operational environment where a cold bore shot was critical.
b) Competitors will be taken to the firing line, the distance will be provided and target
numbers will be assigned to them. They will cover down behind their assigned
firing positions. No gear is allowed on the firing line and all weapons must be in
condition 4. On the command, “Fire” competitors may assume firing positions and
have 1 minute to fire 1 round at the designated distance (200 to 600 yards).
A-5
c) Rules:
i) No talking to other competitors outside of a team while on line.
d) Scoring.
i) Maximum points – 100 points.
(1) 100 points issued for a hit on the line or inside the designated kill zone, 50
points for a hit on the line or in the outer section of the kill zone, 0 points for
a hit outside of the outer section of the kill zone or a complete miss off the
target.
(2) Kill zone targets will be no larger or smaller than 1 moa at range, IE. A 300
yard target will have a 3” 100 point kill zone and a 6” 50 point outer zone.
(3) Rounds required – 1.
6. Match 6. C/Sniper Urban Shoot. (Scored as individuals)
a) The C/Sniper Urban Shoot is used to evaluate a snipers ability to engage targets
and apply the fundamentals of marksmanship while under physical/mental stress in
an environment where alternate shooting positions are required. It is run without
the aid of an observer.
b) Competitors will be taken to the starting point and allowed 1 minute of preparation
time. Once the preparation time has elapsed, he will be given the command
“Load”. The next command will be “Shooter ready?” short pause, “Go!” On the
command “Go” the shooter will begin to negotiate the course. Weapons must
remain in condition 3 until the first firing point is reached, after that, the weapon
may be in Condition 1 through the rest of the course. Any unsafe weapons
handling will result in the termination of a competitors run and result in a DNF for
this match. Competitors must complete the course of fire within 10 minutes and
need to obtain 1 one hit from each obstacle.
c) Rules:
i) Safe weapons’ handling is a must.
ii) All obstacles will be negotiated.
d) Scoring.
i) Maximum points – 100 points.
(1) 1st round hit – 10 points.
(2) 2nd round hit – 5 points.
e) If the 10 minute time frame ends prior to the competitor firing on the last target,
the points accrued prior to the time ending will be awarded. IE. 5 first round hits
prior to the 10 minute time frame ended= 50 points.
A-6
f) Rounds required – 20 Maximum.
7. Match 7. Mil/Reticle Holds Shoot. (Scored as individuals)
a) The mil / reticle holds Shoot is used to evaluate a snipers ability to engage targets
and apply the fundamentals of marksmanship while using mil or reticle holds to
engage their respective targets (50-600 yards). It is run with the aid of an
observer.
b) This stage will be conducted using the competitors 100 yard/meter zero and no
windage on the scope. The only adjustment allowed for this stage will be the
focus/parallax adjustment.
c) Competitors will be taken to the starting point and allowed 1 minute of preparation
time. Once the preparation time has elapsed, the team will be given the command
“Load”. The next command will be “Shooter ready?” short pause, “Go!” On the
command “Go” the shooter will fire on his assigned targets (10) in the order
described by the scorer for that stage. Each target will have either a number or
letter assigned to it.
d) When shooter one in a team finishes, the team will be assigned another 10 targets
for the second shooter to engage in the exact same manner as the first.
e) Rules:
i) 5 minutes will be allowed for the stage.
ii) Only 2 shots will be fired on each target.
iii) If the shooter or observer makes any elevation or windage changes to the scope
during the stage, time will stop and the score accrued to that point will be
awarded.
f) Scoring.
i) Maximum points – 100 points.
(1) 1st round hit – 10 points.
(2) 2nd round hit – 5 points.
g) If the 5 minute time frame ends prior to the competitor firing on the last target, the
points accrued prior to the time ending will be awarded. IE. 5 first round hits prior
to the 5 minute time frame ended= 50 points.
h) Rounds required – 20 Maximum.
A-7
8. Match 8. Unknown Distance Field Fire Shoot w/ Mover. (Scored as
individuals)
a) The field firing exercise is used to evaluate a snipers ability to locate, determine
distance to, and engage targets under simulated field firing situations.
b) Competitors will be taken to the firing line and target sets will be assigned to them.
They will cover down behind their assigned firing positions. No gear is allowed on
the firing line and all weapons must be in condition 4.
c) Rules:
i) Observers are mandatory.
ii) No talking to other competitors outside of a team while on line.
iii) There will be two target sets. Each set will have 10 targets. The sniper and
observer will fire on different sets.
iv) Prior to the start of the stage, 10 teams will set up required equipment on the
firing line (1 min. prep time), at the end of the prep time the 10 targets for the
first shooter will be explained and questions answered.
v) When all team understand their targets, the first target will be called and the
teams will have 2 min. to range, gauge wind and install any elevation and
windage on their guns. At the end of 2 min. all teams will be asked to place
their heads down, out of the scopes and not view the targets (violations of this
request will result in a miss called for that respective target and no points given.
vi) Each team will be called in order and will have 20 seconds to fire their first shot,
if a hit, the next team will be called. If a miss is call on the first shot, the team
will have 10 seconds to re-engage that target.
vii) At the end of the 10 target string, each shooter will be asked to engage a
moving target at 600 yards 4 times (2 shots left to right pass and 2 shots right
to left pass).
viii) Scorers will state either “Hit” or “Miss”. Decisions on hit or miss are final.
ix) At the end of 10 targets, the teams will switch shooters and start again with the
different set of targets.
d) Scoring.
i) Maximum points – 200 points.
(1) Stationary Targets
(a) 1st round hit – 10 points.
(b) 2nd round hit – 5 points.
(2) Moving Targets
(a) 25 points per hit
ii) Rounds required – 24 Max.
A-8
9. Match 9. Handgun Hide Clearance Shoot. (Scored as individuals)
a) The Handgun Hide Clearance Shoot is used to evaluate a team member’s ability to
engage targets and apply the fundamentals of marksmanship while under
physical/mental stress in an environment where the handgun would need to be
used to clear a structure prior to being utilized as a FFP. This will be an individual
effort.
b) Competitors will be taken to the starting point and allowed 1 minute of preparation
time. Once the preparation time has elapsed, he will be given the command
“Load”. The next command will be “Shooter ready?” short pause, “Go!” On the
command “Go” the shooter will begin to negotiate the course. Weapons must
remain in condition 3 until the first firing point is reached, after that, the weapon
may be in Condition 1 through the rest of the course. Any unsafe weapons
handling will result in the termination of a competitors run and result in a DNF for
this stage.
c) Competitors must complete the course of fire within 2 minutes and need to obtain 1
one hit minimum into each shoot target and no hits on no shoot targets.
d) Only one hit will be scored per target. If two or more hits are found, the higher
value hit will be used for scoring purposes.
e) Scoring.
i) The DSQ-1A (“IZZY”) target is used for this stage.
(1) Inner Ring: 10 points.
(2) Outer Ring/body: 5 points.
(3) Miss: 0 points.
(4) Hit on a no shoot target will result in a 10 point penalty per hit.
ii) Maximum points – 50 points.
f) If the 2 minute time frame ends prior to the competitor firing on the last target, the
points accrued prior to the time ending will be awarded. IE. 3 inner ring hits prior to
the 2 minute time frame ended= 30 points.
g) Rounds required – 5 minimum/unlimited maximum.
10. Match 10. Handgun/Carbine Stress Shoot. (Scored as teams)
a) The Handgun/carbine Stress Shoot is used to evaluate a team’s ability to engage
targets and apply the fundamentals of marksmanship while under physical/mental
stress in an environment where the team would need to break contact. This will be
a team effort.
A-9
b) Competitors will be taken to the starting point and allowed 1 minute of preparation
time. Once the preparation time has elapsed, they will be given the command
“Load”. The next command will be “Shooter ready?” short pause, “Go!” On the
command “Go” the team will begin to negotiate the course. Weapons must remain
in condition 3 until the first firing point is reached, after that, the weapon may be in
Condition 1 through the rest of the course. Any unsafe weapons handling will
result in the termination of a team’s run and result in a DNF for this stage.
c) Both competitors will start with 3 five round carbine magazines and 3 full handgun
magazines. The carbine must be utilized first until empty and then the team
member can transition to the handgun or re load the carbine. All re loads and
transitions are the responsibility of the competitor during this stage.
d) Competitors must complete the course of fire as fast as possible and need to obtain
2 hits minimum into each shoot target and no hits on no shoot targets.
e) Only 2 hits will be scored per target. If 3 or more hits are found, the higher value
hits will be used for scoring purposes.
f) Scoring (IDPA STYLE-VICKERS COUNT).
i) The IDPA target is used for this stage.
(1) Inner Ring and Head: 5 points/0 points down.
(2) Outer body: 4 points/1 point down.
(3) Miss: 0 points/ 5 points down.
(4) Hit on a no shoot target will result in a 5 point penalty per hit.
ii) Maximum points – Based on Time.
iii) A 10 point bonus will be awarded to the fastest final score.
iv) An 8 point bonus will be awarded to the 2nd fastest final score.
v) A 6 point bonus will be awarded to the 3rd fastest final score.
g) Rounds required – unlimited maximum.
11. Match 11. Target ID Shoot. (Scored as teams)
a) The Target ID Shoot is used to evaluate a team’s ability to apply the fundamentals
of marksmanship and obtain maximum accuracy from his sniper weapon system
fired in an operational environment where shooter/spotter communication was
critical.
b) Competitors will be taken to the firing line, the distance will be provided and target
numbers will be assigned to them. They will cover down behind their assigned
firing positions. No gear is allowed on the firing line and all weapons must be in
condition 4. On the command, “Fire” competitors may assume firing positions and
A-10
have 2 minutes to fire 1 round at each of the targets identified in the shoot log
book provided. Targets will be a mixture of 18 targets which will be clear to the
spotter using a 20-25x spotting scope but not clear to the shooter with a 10x rifle
scope. The spotter will have to describe where to shoot to the team member firing.
c) Rules:
i) No talking to other competitors outside of a team while on line.
ii) Spotting scopes must be set and confirmed by scoring staff at no higher than
25x.
iii) Rifle scopes must be set and confirmed by scoring staff at no higher than 10x.
iv) At the end of the first 2 minutes, a new shoot log book will be provided and the
spotter shoots the stage just as his partner did.
d) Scoring.
i) Maximum points – 100 points per team.
(1) 10 points awarded for each hit on the proper targets.
(2) 10 points will be deducted from the score for each hit on targets not
identified in the shoot log.
(3) Rounds required – 5 each shooter.
12. Weapons Handling.
a) In order to ensure the safety of contestants, range personnel and spectators the
following weapons handling procedures will be followed.
b) Condition codes. So there is no confusion as to what condition or status a weapon
should be in at a given time the following condition codes will be followed.
i) Condition 4. Bolt open with an empty chamber, no magazine inserted or rounds
inserted in an internal magazine. Weapon on safe.
ii) Condition 3. Bolt closed on an empty chamber, filled magazine inserted or
rounds inserted in an internal magazine. Weapon on safe.
iii) Condition 2. Not applicable.
iv) Condition 1. Bolt closed on round in chamber. Magazine filled. Weapon on
safe.
c) Commands.
i) “LOAD”. Go from condition 4 to 3.
ii) “Make Ready”. Go from Condition 3 to 1.
iii) “Unload”. Go from condition 1 to 4.
iv) “Unload, Show clear”. Clear weapon, show condition 4 to range personnel.
d) Safety violations.
i) Competitors may be removed from a match, if in the opinion of range
personnel; the competitor has committed a safety violation of serious enough
nature that it endangered others.
ii) Use common sense and ensure your weapon is in good operating order.
A-11
NOTE: SMTC will allow early arriving competitors (Thursday October 13th ONLY) to
zero on the 100 yard range. No other practice (movers, KIMS, Stalk…) practice will be
authorized so don’t ask.
Opportunity to confirm zero will start no earlier that 0900 on the 13th of October. On
arrival, check in with the Operations Office. Range staff will be contacted via radio and
you will be directed to a practice area. Practice will end no later than 1500 (3pm).
Sponsorship: SMTC has been in contact with some of the best known providers of tactical
and shooting related gear and have secured sponsorships for giveaways at this match.
B
 

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I just installed an extension add-on for attachments to this forum... I've edited the original post to include the PDF with the information in it!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thank You!! It is a great cause and will be a lot of fun. These guys lay it on the line for us and we need to help them when they come home.
 
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