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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys, haven't been over here in quite a while. Busy with work, baby, etc. I just completed my second to last day of one week long LEO Sniper School in Kansas with KLETC - the Kansas Law Enforcement Training Center. The lead instructor is an ex LT with 11 years SWAT/Sniper experience from Wichita (city of probably a little under 500,000) where I was an officer for about 6 1/2 years. I'm now with a smaller, accompanying town with better politics, and was given the opportunity to attend this program to be certified as my department's designated sniper. I shoot a stock SPS in .308, with weaver mounts, Burris XTR medium rings, Falcon Menace 4X14X44 FFP scope, Harris bipod and Tac Ops cheek pad/ammo pouch. My first day - after a full day of interesting classroom stuff, the 24 men in the course break out their guns and about 21 of them all have 700 PSS, or 700 P's, with the full 24 or 26 inch barrel, HS Precision stocks and most of them also had Leupold Mark 4's. In truth, I felt a little under gunned, and this was a first for me. However, after two full days of shooting at 100-600 yards (and everything in between in varying winds), I can report that a stock SPS is about in the same grade as a 700 p or 700 pss, and a Falcon Menace is about as good as a scope as the tactical Leupolds, which are double the price of the Falcons. We all had to shoot match grade, 168 gr, BTHP's. With one more day of shooting, I would say I'm probably middle of the pack or maybe a little bit on the high (good) side of our stats. No glaring errors. Have been best shooter on some of our relays. However, the drop with a 20 inch barrel will differ a little bit (and grow bigger the further out you go) but you won't really lose any accuracy. It's all about modifiying your charts, math and trusting your spotter. Tomorrow, we're bringing it back to 100 yards and doing "moving target" drills and a bunch of other random stuff. Long story short... the SPS is a fantastic gun for real, "operational" purposes. I had to modify and create my own ballistic chart for my "dope" book due to the slight difference in drop. I'm not sure if the SPS would be a great 1000 yard gun, but up to 600 yards, with vortex winds, it will hold its own against the higher priced Remington 700's.
 

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I didn't know that, but I suspected as much. If you look at what Snipers had 20 years ago and what they did with it, there is no reason the SPS won't do well.

Congratulations on picking a tough job and doing well.
 

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Very good report on your sniper school success. Also good report on the SPS Tactical .308 since I have one as well. I hope you will never have to put your skills to use, but if you do it sounds like you are skilled to handle the difficult task if called upon. Thank you for keeping our cities and communities safe!
 

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Congratulations on a job well done.
As usual the operator proves vastly more important than the tool to a successful outcome.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks for the kind comments. Last day went well. It's nice to hang a picture on our fridge with a 1/2 sized hostage head (grape fruit sized) half blocking a 1/2 sized hostage taker's head with a bullet hole right between the bad guy's eyes - or center of the "T" as I've come to know it - from a "stress-command" shot at 100 yards. I'm happy to report that the SPS held up beautifully. No complaints at all - as long as you slightly modify your own ballistic charts at longer ranges due to the shorter barrel - but not that much. I truly belive it's capable of ANY operational shot out to 600 yards. I had several groups that were just under 3/4 MOA under pretty stressful conditions. My best overall group was probably a 3 inch four shot group at 400 yards all clustered around my target's right eye. This gun is capable of almost anything. The Falcon Menace scope is a slightly different story... it worked great for me... precise adjustements, clear glass, etc... but when we returned to zero and went back 100 for more practical LEO sniper shooting, it was slightly off - about an inch in elavation and a 1/4 inch for windage. However, from all the F bombs I heard dropped along my relay's line (included the $1200 Leupold shooters), that must be somewhat of a common problem after shooting multipe relays at 200, 300, 400 and then 600. I was able to re-zero quickly and get back to a true dead balls on zero with a single series of accurate adjustments but I can't help but wonder if a higher priced optic would manually return to zero better. Either way, the 20 inch long barrel and Hogue stock went up against the big boys and came out looking great. As stated before, I think I was slightly better than middle of the pack and best shooter for multiple relays, so I'm of the opinion that if you're looking for an operational Rem700 or just something that is super accurate out to 600 yards (I can't speak from experience about further distances - 600 yards is about a 110 inch drop with this barrel and about 102 with a 26 inch one) the SPS is the perfect gun. Why lug around another couple pounds of barrel when it doesn't help your accuracy? Another "tighter tolerance" stock like an HS Precision, McMillian or Bell and Carlson? Maybe. My Hogue had me shooting pretty much sub MOA at all of our distances. Either way... an awesome, fun, enlightening week. Big confidence booster, and once again... thanks for the nice comments. I would love to hear about any other people using the SPS (or the Falcon Menace 4X14X44 FFP) for operational or just long range uses.
PS... I learned about the scope ideas, my current rings, X Mark trigger adustment, about this gun in general (before I bought one) and other vital stuff from this site. Kudos from someone who really put all your input to use into real world training. Keep the info flowing.
 

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Congrats with the success of being on the good side of states :D

And wish you best with the rest bro !
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks again. Tomorrow's monday and I'm going back to normal work but wish I was going back to sniper school. Extremely fun/educational/operational week. Would still love to hear about anyone else using the SPS for LEO work and/or any long range stuff to compare ballistic notes.
 

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Mate,

To me tahts as good as eval of the SPS Tactical Ive read. Its been used for operational use and that to me is a true test of a weapons system. I have my SPS Tactical in a HS Policet stock and I think that if you went to a less flexable stock, for about 200 USD you could have a trully awesome rifle, Talk to Mike R at TacOps and see if he has any laying around. Mine shoots under .25MOA when I do my part. Got a few groups to prove it too. Ive spent about 4000 AUD on my rifle and still got more to go.

Also, if your able, have a look at the Federal TRU 165gr HPBT, my rifle PURE LOVES THE STUFF!!!

Thats for the review.
 

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I enjoyed reading that thanks for sharing! I suppose the drop would be different because of the velocity difference with compared to a longer barrel. Were most shooting 24" or 26" barrels?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Out of 24 total guys, I think that 21 of them had 24-26 inch heavy barrels. I had the SPS, another guy had an LTR and some random small town guy had an M-14. Yes, it's all about velocity and the difference in clicks is next to nothing at 200 (most guys were at 9 up and I was comfortable at 9 but 10 also put me right there as well), a few more clicks at 300, and about 6-8 clicks difference at 400. About an 9-10 difference at 600. Zero loss in group size compared to the longer barrels. Might be a different story at 1000 yards. On that note, when going back to zero, I did seem to be off about an inch or so (as stated above) but that's all optics - not a reflection of the gun. Anybody else out there find that that's common - zeroing at 100, making many adjustments and shooting at longer ranges, then finding that they're not back to a true zero with their scope? Granted, an inch or so isn't that big of a difference, but we went from 200, 300, 400 and 600 shots to 100 shots at TINY little dots ranging from 1/4 inch to 1 inch. Being off by a full inch made a difference then. After two shots - knowing I was obviously a little off - I was able to make the adjustment, but I am wondering if higher end optics would have put me back at a true zero.
 

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Mate, are you sure you didnt miss count the clicks or have windage dialed in??

Either that or yes, it would be your optics. If its an operational rifle, I would spend the coin and run a NF NXS scope. You simply cant beat it for value, ruggedness, dependability, etc

Remember, you get what you pay for mate. See if your dept will go halve sin the cost or even contribute to the cost.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Positive on the clicks. Going from about 70 clicks up/8 right, back to zero put me a solid inch low and a hair left at 100. How would the NF NXS compare to a Leupold MK4 you think?
 

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The NXS is a scope that surpasses the leupolds in many ways. They cost more, but the NXS is a more rugged and tougher scope IMHO. I have used Mark 4's and find them lacking to the hype they get.

But get what suits you. I think the 3.5-15x mag range is awesome. Nice low end and good high end. The Glass quality is top notch aswell.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·

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Yeah, like that scope. Trust me, its worth the cash spent. Nothing on the Falcon, but the NXS is kinda the standard.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Fine... you guys convinced me. However, the only guy in our class who had a Nightforce (almost everyone else had Leupold MK 4's) was kind of a dick, so I hope I don't become a dick if I get one. Yeah, the Falcon is decent for the price. It held up very well over all, but I know it's not the best operational scope for the task at hand. I would feel more confident in an actual engagement with something that I know is awesome quality... even if it makes me a dick. :D Not saying all Nightforce owners are dicks, but this particular guy made a point to show everyone that he had a Nightforce, which made him a demi-god (at least). Either way... I can't knock the scopes because of one ass-clown.
 

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Mate, that gjuys would have just been a dick and wouild be over compenstaing for his other....err.....shortcomings...... LOL :)
 

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PALADIN said:
Out of 24 total guys, I think that 21 of them had 24-26 inch heavy barrels. I had the SPS, another guy had an LTR and some random small town guy had an M-14. Yes, it's all about velocity and the difference in clicks is next to nothing at 200 (most guys were at 9 up and I was comfortable at 9 but 10 also put me right there as well), a few more clicks at 300, and about 6-8 clicks difference at 400. About an 9-10 difference at 600. Zero loss in group size compared to the longer barrels. Might be a different story at 1000 yards. On that note, when going back to zero, I did seem to be off about an inch or so (as stated above) but that's all optics - not a reflection of the gun. Anybody else out there find that that's common - zeroing at 100, making many adjustments and shooting at longer ranges, then finding that they're not back to a true zero with their scope? Granted, an inch or so isn't that big of a difference, but we went from 200, 300, 400 and 600 shots to 100 shots at TINY little dots ranging from 1/4 inch to 1 inch. Being off by a full inch made a difference then. After two shots - knowing I was obviously a little off - I was able to make the adjustment, but I am wondering if higher end optics would have put me back at a true zero.
It's very common. Unless you're using a Night Force or high end Leupold. That is what cost money in a scope. By the way, that difference is cumulative. I've had cheap scopes in the prairie dog towns that were off as much as a foot after a few days of dialing up and down. My Leupold and Nikon scopes are right back to zero after a week of shooting. In fact, one Leupold I have, hasn't been re zeroed in 5 years of doing that. People talk about how clear a scope is but even cheap scopes can be made with pretty clear glass. The coating on the glass wears away pretty quickly tho. If you're in the business, you owe it to yourself and the people you work for, to have the best equipment money can buy.
 

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The Man above has said it best. Buy once, cry once.

Btw, get a NXS :)
 
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